Interview with a 19 year old web entrepreneur

We are reprinting this article, with permission from the Internet Marketing Centre, about 19-year-old Jermaine Griggs - a college student who earned $200,000 from his HearandPlay.com web site last year. 

We thought we should share this interview with you because he didn't start with any kind of special knowledge or a whole lot of money. In fact, he grew up in a rough neighbourhood where his life could have easily gone wrong.  The most interesting thing is that he is not a computer wizard - but a piano teacher.

QUESTION: Jermaine, to start with, would you mind giving our readers some background on what your site is all about?

Jermaine:
HearandPlay.com specializes in teaching students how to play the piano by ear.

The site features over 60 free piano lessons and six newsletters ranging from beginner lessons to advanced music theory. So there is a wide variety of topics musicians can explore.

QUESTION: Can you tell us about how you first got started on the Internet? What was your first web site, and how did you grow from there?

Jermaine:
I started my first web site when I was about 15 years old. Basically, I had become an affiliate of over 1,000 online merchants and had my own virtual shopping mall. It took weeks to create -- but it only made money from ONE web site that was willing to pay me $.50 per click!

To my surprise, at the age of 15, I received my first check for $800 (all based on click-throughs from my site to theirs). This was a quarterly check, however, so I definitely couldn't get rich making $266.66 a month.

After that experience, I was thirsty for another venture. I had taught myself how to play the piano by ear at the age of nine and had been asked to teach several children in the community. I developed workbooks for all of my students, composed of several exercises and worksheets.

Then one day a parent said to me, "You should sell these workbooks to other piano students." That thought had never really crossed my mind. So I took what I had and I made some flyers and posted them in laundromats, grocery stores, thrift shops, etc. No one called.

Then I thought: "What about creating a web site marketing these piano workbooks?" And to make a very long story short, that was how HearandPlay.com started.

QUESTION: How did this site do when you first launched it?

Jermaine:
Well, I sold my first set of five music workbooks in November of 2000. Boy, was I overjoyed. Since then, I have combined the five-book series into a 300-page book (released in March 2002), which has been a great success with revenues of over $200,000 so far!

I've also created a software program aimed at helping students train their ears. Basically, while students are studying my 300-page course, this program will test them on the various sounds of different scales and chords. I offer this program as a bonus item to encourage customer orders.

QUESTION: Can you give us some background on yourself? What was your experience before you first got started online?

Jermaine:
Fortunately, I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth. I say fortunately because perhaps if I was, I wouldn't have had a reason to work so hard for my success. My mom raised my sister and me all by herself for most of our childhood. We grew up in the inner city and I could have easily hung out with the wrong crowd, but my mom raised us in the church.

When I was 15, I went to live with my grandmother because she needed someone around to help. That's when my first web site was conceived. My grandmother would beg me to go to bed at night, but I would hear this imaginary voice telling me to stay awake and work.

I was always studying how to make money, how to market, what customers wanted, what customers needed, what to do, and what not to do.

So I am proof that it is possible to start a company with very little money and the right "know-how." It all started from my small office in the corner of the living room of my grandma's one-bedroom apartment.

QUESTION: And how big is your site today?

Jermaine:
Annual revenues last year were about $200,000. This year, we project sales to be in the $350,000 to $400,000 range, with 2004 forecast to hit $500,000.

QUESTION: How long did it take for HearandPlay.com to start making a profit?

Jermaine:
I made just $60 my first month. It wasn't until March of 2002 that I started making over $5,000 a month. That soon doubled, then quadrupled.

QUESTION: Did you design the site yourself?

Jermaine:
I've never outsourced any of my design, advertising, or other functions of my business. Everything that you see on the site, I had to learn how to do. That's why I stayed up so late at night, read so many books, and invested in products that would teach me how to do what I needed to do.

QUESTION: How much traffic are you seeing to your site? And where is your traffic predominantly coming from?

Jermaine:
We get about 30,000 to 40,000 visitors a month, and roughly 15,000 of them are new to the site. From that, I pull in about 3,000 to 3,500 new subscribers to my general newsletter each month. We currently have a growing list of about 23,000 pianists who I've managed to build a lot of credibility with.

The bulk of our traffic comes from search engines and pay-per- click placements.

QUESTION: What are you doing to collect the opt-in e-mail addresses of potential customers?

Jermaine:
I've included a pull-down menu on my homepage that lists all 60 lessons (as though you could actually click on one and go to that lesson). But right next to the pull-down menu are fields that ask for your first name and e-mail address. This form adds subscribers to my general mailing list.

But that's just the beginning...

After they choose a lesson on the homepage, I take them to the second part of the sign-up process, where they can subscribe to one of my six specialized newsletters. (According to my stats, about 70% will do this.) This second page collects more detailed information.

After completing this form (which takes about a minute), they get access to the members' section. That's how I collect so many names. Out of 15,000 new visitors a month, you have to admit that 3,000 sign-ups is pretty good!

QUESTION: No kidding! That's a 20% conversion rate! What strategies have you used to get your sign-up rate so high?

Jermaine:
In the beginning, I was averaging about 10 to 15 subscribers a day. I needed a way to increase this number, so I did some research on how other sites increase their newsletter lists quickly.

I soon found out that all the sites I believed were making real money at the time had one thing in common: They all had pop- ups. Not just basic pop-ups, but more sophisticated ones. Some popped under where you couldn't see them until you left the site. Some could pop up 10, 30, or 120 seconds after you left the site.

So I thought, why not put some pop-ups on my site? Why risk the chance of someone not seeing my newsletter sign-up form when I can put it right in front of their face?

No matter what anyone says about pop-ups, they have increased my subscriber rate by 10 times! I now get about 100 new members every day!

QUESTION: How often do you make a point of following up with your leads and previous customers?

Jermaine:
Well, I actually have a number of systems in place. I mail out my regular newsletter once a month, but the specialized newsletters are all a bit different.

For the beginner's newsletter, for instance, I send new subscribers a welcome letter and inform them that I will be sending them a free 10-day beginner's course by e-mail. If they don't want this free e-mail course, they are instructed to unsubscribe (but of course, no one does).

So I get an opportunity to send them 10 consecutive e-mails for 10 days. You know how many end up ordering my 300-page course? About 60%!

I have a 1% to 1.5% unsubscribe rate for my general newsletter, but the unsubscribe rates for my specialized letters are less than 1%.

Beyond the monthly and specialized newsletters, each opt-in is automatically put in a rotation to receive a message every 60 days saying: "How is your piano playing coming along, Bob...?"

This works out well because customers feel that we really want to help them (which we do!). We even send out a message one year from the date they first joined, saying: "It's been a year since your first piano lessons with us, Marge..."

Not only does each message contain a plug for my course, but each one also helps establish credibility when they see how much they can learn.

Follow up is so important for me! I wouldn't be able to survive without it.

QUESTION: So what would you say are the top marketing strategies that you use on a regular basis?

Jermaine:

1. Search engine sponsorship -- I make sure to stay in the top three search results on Overture pertaining to "piano lessons," "learn piano," "learn piano by ear," or any combination like that. I have about 250 to 300 search terms I use. I also use Google AdWords from time to time.

My rule is that if a search engine doesn't produce $2 profit for every $1 spent, I won't do it. So if I invest $1, I would expect to make $3, of which $2 would be profit. The formula really works and ultimately search engine sponsorship becomes a numbers game.

2. Affiliate program -- I have about 350+ affiliates. Some draw thousands of visitors a month, which turns into thousands of dollars in sales a year.

3. Advertising on highly related sites -- I look for sites with massive amounts of my target audience. If you find a site that attracts exactly who you are looking for, you've probably got a gold mine waiting to be tapped.

I've also noticed that banners at the top of a site's home- page get click-through rates as high as 4%, while bottom banners only get a 1% click-through rate.

4. Partnerships and joint ventures -- From one e-mail and phone conversation, I closed a deal that makes HearandPlay.com the sole provider of material for a traveling gospel music workshop (which reaches 500 students a year and means 500 more courses sold that wouldn't have been sold otherwise). Joint ventures work!

QUESTION: You mention that you're tracking the visitor-to-sale conversion rate of your traffic, both from the pay-per-click search engines and your banner advertising... How do you do this, and how do you monitor your conversion rates?

Jermaine:
I just assign each banner or keyword campaign a unique ID in AssocTRAC, which lets me keep track of a person from their first visit to my site to any purchases they make. That way I know exactly where I'm getting my best customers, which is crucial to get the best return on pay-per-click campaigns.

For example, according to AssocTRAC, when someone clicks on my listing after searching for "piano lessons" in the pay-per- click search engines, one out of 33 will buy. So if the listing "piano lessons" costs me $.25 per click, it takes $.25 x 33 to get one sale. (That is, it takes $8.25 to get one sale, which brings in an average of $75).

So in terms of numbers, $8.25 yields $75 (but that's just for this particular listing). Now wait, $75 is just for their first sale. This person is now a lifetime customer!

QUESTION: Could you tell us about a "light bulb" moment that you've had? A moment when you've thought to yourself, "If only I'd known that earlier..."

Jermaine:
Originally, I was just focused on getting the sale. But I soon realized that my mission was to help musicians reach their music goals. After that realization, I added message boards, chat rooms, and the like, and sales skyrocketed! Why? Because members saw that we were a legitimate company willing to help them.

People have no reservations buying from a company they trust and feel helped by.

QUESTION: What have you done to automate your site?

Jermaine:
Well, pretty much everything is automated. I don't really do anything anymore other than look for new partners.

My shopping cart takes the order, confirms it, and sends it to my credit card processor. The customer then automatically receives a thank-you e-mail.

After two weeks, the customer automatically gets an e-mail asking how their course is coming along. Customers are thrilled at our customer service and actually believe that I sit down each time to send them e-mails.

QUESTION: What would you consider to be your major achievements?

Jermaine:
My all-time greatest achievement would be the fact that I took absolutely nothing and made something out of it.

I hope this encourages people not to give up because start-up capital may be low. Make the best out of what you have! With research, dedication, and patience, a "little" will eventually turn into a "little more," and a "little more" will turn into "some," and "some" will turn into "a lot" -- I know because I've been there, and I'm still working on getting "a lot"!

QUESTION: What do you think has helped to make your site so successful?

Jermaine:
It wasn't until I created a long, catchy information-packed salesletter (set up as one long piano lesson) and asked for the sale that my sales skyrocketed! No matter what I sell in the future, I will never ever use a simple "buy me" link again. People aren't online with the intention of buying, they are online for information -- and that's just what I give them! Lots of it!

Corey, you're my main influence and I like to use your structure (even though we're selling totally different products). I hardly ever got sales when I just listed a few points about the book and a picture of it. Now, despite what anyone says about people not reading long sales material, sales continue to pour in day after day.

QUESTION: What is the biggest mistake you have made since you first launched your site?

Jermaine:
Hmm... When I first got started, the biggest mistake I made was placing advertisements on my site because I thought they looked good.

Now I understand that this is one of the biggest mistakes a webmaster can make (especially with untargeted ads). I will never again show a banner advertisement on my site unless it is advertising another product of mine.

QUESTION: What major mistakes do you see other Internet entrepreneurs making?

Jermaine:
I think the number-one mistake Internet entrepreneurs make is not taking the time to make their site as professional as possible. Credibility is a huge issue on the Internet and if you can't convince your customer that you are a trustworthy company, then you won't get a sale from them!

QUESTION: What advice do you have for beginners who are interested in selling over the Web?

Jermaine:
You need a good product! And you also need good marketing, because a good product without the proper marketing techniques yields nothing!

I would say, design your product and your sales page first, test it with various audiences, and release it to the public to see how it does -- and never quit testing ideas and new products. Always ask yourself, "What can I do to increase sales?" I ask this question every night before I go to bed. It has led to so many new thoughts and concepts. With a good product and effective marketing, you're destined to succeed.

QUESTION: Finally, how has running HearandPlay.com impacted your personal and professional life?

Jermaine:
The site has allowed me to become independent from my parents at an early age while everyone else I know either still lives at home or depends on their parents. I have been able to live alone, furnish my home, upgrade my music studio, and attend college without worrying about finances.

Most importantly, it has allowed me to employ my mom, who was laid off last year. I soon look to employ my sister and grandmother (part-time because she loves to have something to do). Basically, everyone around us knows about HearandPlay.com and I think it will be in the family for generations to come (if it doesn't get bought by a major corporation).

Without this site, I would still be living at home depending on my parents for money. I feel blessed and thankful for the ability and mindset to start a business at such an early age, and I pray that I'll have the know-how to take this venture and other endeavors to the next level!

Final thoughts from the Author: Corey Rudl

Remember, Jermaine's story is just one of the in-depth interviews at Secrets To Their Success. Every month, I post two new interviews and a site review, so there's always tons of great material for you to check out.

In fact, right now there are over 250 pages of information already posted on the site. And I always make sure to get the real "nitty-gritty" info from the netrepreneurs I interview so that you can literally model their success. (And find out exactly which tools and resources they're using!)

It's a really great resource site that I'm actually pretty proud of, so I'd love it if you could check it out. Just go to: http://www.SecretsToTheirSuccess.com

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